I mapped out directions to Journal Square and Path to 33rd. Recommended they walk the two blocks to ES for a trip to the top. I believe the subway is now $4.00 a trip so I recommended they grab a cab from ES up to Radio City, Rock Center, St. Pat's and again, depending on time, taxi or walk back to Times Square. After that, if enough time take the subway to WTC, then Path back to Journal Square. Otherwise if out of time take the Path back to Journal Square. Keep in mind, they are only looking at 6 (+-) hours from the hotel in Orange so subtract 1 hour just to get back and forth to the parking garage in JS. Now they're parked, fumbling around to find the path station and ticket machine, buy the tickets, get to the correct platform, ride the Path to midtown. Minimum, another 30 minutes if the train is there waiting for them when they walk up. Not likely so add another 20 minutes. Now we're down to 4 hours, tops. There are 4 people in the crowd, never been to NYC, probably will have some disagreements over what is going on. Probably never experienced a subway other than DC which is a kiddie train compared to NYC. In other words, we have 5 subway lines known as the red, blue, yellow, green and orange lines. Never more than two lines cross a single station, and the only difference in the trains is which endpoint they are going to, Virginia or Maryland and so you are dealing with 5 lines, and 10 destinations. Folks can do this in their heads. This is nothing compared to uptown, downtown, cross-town, N line, R line, Q line, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... A train, E train, C train, and that's just on your Blue line, and although once you have experienced it a couple of times, the FIRST day is very intimidating. Now add the stress that this is a family wedding you can't miss and you're looking at 3 hours to go from ES, 53rd Street sites and Times Square, throw in lunch, even on the run... and when my daughter and I went to the top of the ES, it seemed like we didn't really spend much time on-line but by the time you walk around the bottom a couple of times to get to the elevator, walk around the top a couple of times taking photos, gawk at the Art Deco ground floor which is truly amazing, you got a minimum of 1 hour invested. Now we're down to 2 hours to loop up thru 52nd/53rd Street somehow grab lunch, and back down to Times Square. You or I could do this easily but with 1st timers, I am skeptical based upon my own rookie experiences just a few short years ago when we were getting the HOTH for $37 bucks per nite! I totally agree with you that you have to press the crowd in Times Square and marvel at the Moving Message Boards, experience the subway, and if nothing else stand at the bottom and gaze up at the ES, Chrysler Building, Grand Central TERMINAL, etc... My first visit we stayed in a Savings Barn/Priceline Murray Hill 3* and ate at Sarge's Deli. Nothing can replace that experience of eating where the local's eat! I had recommended my friends grab a sandwich at Carnegie Deli cause us non-natives relate to what has been hyped by the media. I personally thought $27.00 for two to share a plate with a Pastrami on Rye was rediculous even with the "all you can eat kosher Dill's..." But I will change that recommendation per your suggestion to Katz's. Anyway, just wanted to share with you my thinking about why I recommended the "safe" version of taking the Circle Island in the first place. While it doesn't give you the "feel" of the City, and I totally agree with you on that point, I felt it may be the best option for folks to see the landmarks they are familiar with, and still keep folks from choking each other cause they are "late to the wedding..." Since you provide lots of advice to non New Yorkers, and I do truly appreciate it and that is why I give you so much business, I wanted to remind you that your view may be a tad unrealistic when it comes to navigating Manhattan for 1st timers simply because it is so familiar to you... My Warmest Aloha, Keoni :) U Au Mea Kei'ki O' Ka'Aina, I Kapono "The rightiousness of the land is perpetuated in our children" Ancient Hawaiian Proverb and State Motto of Hawaii.